dilipcr
06-15 03:37 PM
The moral is GC comes to those who are lucky and apply for it. Its not true that always the best and brightest will only get GC. If the person is technically good or has good apptitue the best he can do is hang on to his job for years and also pray that his company doesn't go bankrupt (there is not fault of this bright employee :D in this case). Dilip was talking about some flush, this flush will wash all the bad apples and also some good apples.. good people also leave after getting frustrated with immigration system (of this developed nation, which doesn't keep track of its visa numbers, moves dates forward backwards by two years :D big joke They can't even predict visa dates. ) Instead of coming up with bill for fixing the credit market and financial system, he(Grassley) should concentrate more on strict reforms and more regulation for financial system, the root cause of recession instead of beating around the bush with immigration system.. He is trying to use the emotion of the local people.. those who have GC fall for such policies because they know they are ahead in the queue and more jobs will be available to them if few IT works immigrate (There are lot of jobs for citizens and GC only). I wished alteast the ones who have suffered throughout this GC journey will understand the pain of other people. Getting a GC should not change the attitude completely.
Ivar and group,
I think you guys are missing the plot here. Let me reiterate loud and clear. I am NOT against immigrants getting GC. I will not, even in my wildest dreams, claim that the recession is due to the H1Bs and L1s. That is complete baloney spread around by the anti immigrant lobby. My point is let the deserving the GCs soon and not go thru the mindless wait I went thru.
Having said that I am for the following :
1. If the outsourcing companies would pay on an avg at 80K per head for the "well qualified" people, I am even ok with their dumping their dumping the L1s here. Why is it that you guys are ok with the L1s being dumped at 40K-60K salaries ? Shuldn't they get paid high too ? This is what I am arguing for. If the outsourcing cos dont want to pay this rate, then keep them in the country of origin. No need to depress wages here. Is this a wrong thing to ask ?
2. Grassley's bill may force some companies to move entirely to India or China. Isnt that good for India and China ? Why are the pro immigrants against this ? Some times I get the feeling as to who actually is pro and who is anti immigrant !!!! In adition, it may eliminate the many backlogs and help the deserving people here.
3. People who have made a conscious decision to immigrate here have done so considering the standard of living as one of the primary factors in their decisions. In order to enjoy this standard of living, people have to constantly upgrade skillsets to remain competitive in an industry or move to another industry where mass interest is relatively low. Why should these people's lives, after all the travails, be impacted by the low wage scum outsourcing companies. Please remember these companies, like an other company on earth, operate only on self interest. No point in supporting such companies which in adition to the self interest principle also flout rules with abandon.
4. In my opinion, self interest has alwyas resulted in the greater good of society. Do not confuse self interest with greed. Greed is what caused this financial mess. If people/companies operated with concern for greater societal good, they would have spent billions in concocting an AIDS vaccine for the children in Africa than to spend the same billions in concocting VIAGRA for the rich old men. Since employment based immigration debate involves companies' interests too, we have to balance societal good with some impact for the companies. My suggestion here is that let the outsourcers take the hit. They have always benefitted by flouting the rules. If your concern is way too high for your L1 brothers then you would find it prudent to bring in the law that clearly states "Pay high wages for the L1s or dont bring them in here". I dont understand what is wrong here ? Is it that I didnt convey my message across right or is it that people blindly support immigration ?
Ivar and group,
I think you guys are missing the plot here. Let me reiterate loud and clear. I am NOT against immigrants getting GC. I will not, even in my wildest dreams, claim that the recession is due to the H1Bs and L1s. That is complete baloney spread around by the anti immigrant lobby. My point is let the deserving the GCs soon and not go thru the mindless wait I went thru.
Having said that I am for the following :
1. If the outsourcing companies would pay on an avg at 80K per head for the "well qualified" people, I am even ok with their dumping their dumping the L1s here. Why is it that you guys are ok with the L1s being dumped at 40K-60K salaries ? Shuldn't they get paid high too ? This is what I am arguing for. If the outsourcing cos dont want to pay this rate, then keep them in the country of origin. No need to depress wages here. Is this a wrong thing to ask ?
2. Grassley's bill may force some companies to move entirely to India or China. Isnt that good for India and China ? Why are the pro immigrants against this ? Some times I get the feeling as to who actually is pro and who is anti immigrant !!!! In adition, it may eliminate the many backlogs and help the deserving people here.
3. People who have made a conscious decision to immigrate here have done so considering the standard of living as one of the primary factors in their decisions. In order to enjoy this standard of living, people have to constantly upgrade skillsets to remain competitive in an industry or move to another industry where mass interest is relatively low. Why should these people's lives, after all the travails, be impacted by the low wage scum outsourcing companies. Please remember these companies, like an other company on earth, operate only on self interest. No point in supporting such companies which in adition to the self interest principle also flout rules with abandon.
4. In my opinion, self interest has alwyas resulted in the greater good of society. Do not confuse self interest with greed. Greed is what caused this financial mess. If people/companies operated with concern for greater societal good, they would have spent billions in concocting an AIDS vaccine for the children in Africa than to spend the same billions in concocting VIAGRA for the rich old men. Since employment based immigration debate involves companies' interests too, we have to balance societal good with some impact for the companies. My suggestion here is that let the outsourcers take the hit. They have always benefitted by flouting the rules. If your concern is way too high for your L1 brothers then you would find it prudent to bring in the law that clearly states "Pay high wages for the L1s or dont bring them in here". I dont understand what is wrong here ? Is it that I didnt convey my message across right or is it that people blindly support immigration ?
wallpaper Justin Bieber Kisses Selena
sk2006
08-16 01:51 AM
The original post was not about SRK detention.. but it was giving an idea of US immigration system. Well everyone here is singing praises of US immigration system.. if anyone of you will be detained if simillar name flashes on their computer and detained for hours and sent back then i hope you guys don't change your tune.. Thanks for all your reds.. looks like some people over here are interested in green or red.. crazy guys!!! go get a life.
Can you point to a single post praising the immigration system.
Can you point to a single post praising the immigration system.
485Mbe4001
01-23 04:50 PM
what happens to the people who got their GC's using labor from this guys company? Hopefully they are not affected, it will be sad to see their lives in trouble because of him.
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GCwaitforever
02-14 03:22 PM
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=223326&postcount=124
See the Judge ruling from Lazycis post regarding namecheck. USCIS has an obligation to use the numbers to the fullest extent.
See the Judge ruling from Lazycis post regarding namecheck. USCIS has an obligation to use the numbers to the fullest extent.
more...
Lasantha
12-14 03:53 PM
OK, sorry then. I missed that. ;)
Yes, Lasantha.. you are right. But that was one of mbartosik's points when he/she was comparing cost/benefit.
Yes, Lasantha.. you are right. But that was one of mbartosik's points when he/she was comparing cost/benefit.
ita
03-30 01:13 PM
I didn't know Lord Rama was part of BJP's manifesto this time.
You are so stuck with 90's. MMS brought economic reforms in 90's so he's reforms guy even though he didn't bring any in his current term.
LK was Lord Rama guy in 90's so he is Lord Rama guy even now.Just check BJP manifesto this time.
Santhan and the like(s)...I'm just breaking it down here...
Like I said in my previous posts religion is played heavily by MMS govt (read as Sonia...I'm sure MMS is a nice person) 4000 Missionaries came to India in last 5 years.More 4000 may come if you give them chance.Now nothing wrong with it generally speaking (except that only christian missionaries were granted visas and Jewsih groups were denied visas) but something wrong if we go by your 'I'don't care if Sankaracharya is jailed,I don't care for lord Rama guys' attitude.
Now these missionaries are setting up miracle boxes ,so far in rural areas, where poor people that drop their wishes in the box see miracles happening.Only hitch is entire family has to convert to Christianity.Yeah abuse of poverty.But there is discrimination (hoping that when you speak of poor you speak of poor of all religions)even in miracles.Some how these missionaries don't dare to mess with Muslim poor.So Muslim poor are left alone. Neither your MMS wrapped State does anything to alleviate their poverty nor these missionaries shower their miracles on them.
BTW it's not poor and Sankaracharya alone there are also other religious(for now Hindu) leaders in their list(Satya Sai Baba, Mata Amritanandamayee, Shri Shri Ravi Shanker Maharaj and many more) Now what's common in them apart from being Hindu leaders they are also immensely into helping your favorite poor people (no conversions though,you don't want to believe me just check out Mata Amritanandamayee's social service camps not for just Hindus all over the world.)
Now if a doctor doesn't get patients how will he survive?
Same way how will missionaries conduct their business if the poor and needy are helped .It's assured State won't help these poor population.Those who are helping them should go to jails so their popularity gets a dent among the masses.(not that their service stops anyways) So you MMS wrapper is facilitating all this.
I know too much stuff but our biased/bought media won't highlight these facts.Remember how A.P High court held media for setting up a 'media trial' even before anything was proved in Sankaracharya case?(nothing was proved till date but since you don't care let's not go there)
So your favorite MMS govt was busy with such things so far.
I know ignorance is bliss but know that bliss will not last long.
I am not saying MMS is the best....but better than others. Do you believe the so called Left the savior of our country. I am not bothering who is ruling or not. My only worry - what is done for our future. I strongly believe Left was the speed bump to the development of the country. Mr.Advani dont have anything but Ram Temple. I hardly see any value in that. He runs his politics based on religon and Ram temple. Let him put the plan and vision for out future, to build stronger India....I will be the first one to vote for him.
You are so stuck with 90's. MMS brought economic reforms in 90's so he's reforms guy even though he didn't bring any in his current term.
LK was Lord Rama guy in 90's so he is Lord Rama guy even now.Just check BJP manifesto this time.
Santhan and the like(s)...I'm just breaking it down here...
Like I said in my previous posts religion is played heavily by MMS govt (read as Sonia...I'm sure MMS is a nice person) 4000 Missionaries came to India in last 5 years.More 4000 may come if you give them chance.Now nothing wrong with it generally speaking (except that only christian missionaries were granted visas and Jewsih groups were denied visas) but something wrong if we go by your 'I'don't care if Sankaracharya is jailed,I don't care for lord Rama guys' attitude.
Now these missionaries are setting up miracle boxes ,so far in rural areas, where poor people that drop their wishes in the box see miracles happening.Only hitch is entire family has to convert to Christianity.Yeah abuse of poverty.But there is discrimination (hoping that when you speak of poor you speak of poor of all religions)even in miracles.Some how these missionaries don't dare to mess with Muslim poor.So Muslim poor are left alone. Neither your MMS wrapped State does anything to alleviate their poverty nor these missionaries shower their miracles on them.
BTW it's not poor and Sankaracharya alone there are also other religious(for now Hindu) leaders in their list(Satya Sai Baba, Mata Amritanandamayee, Shri Shri Ravi Shanker Maharaj and many more) Now what's common in them apart from being Hindu leaders they are also immensely into helping your favorite poor people (no conversions though,you don't want to believe me just check out Mata Amritanandamayee's social service camps not for just Hindus all over the world.)
Now if a doctor doesn't get patients how will he survive?
Same way how will missionaries conduct their business if the poor and needy are helped .It's assured State won't help these poor population.Those who are helping them should go to jails so their popularity gets a dent among the masses.(not that their service stops anyways) So you MMS wrapper is facilitating all this.
I know too much stuff but our biased/bought media won't highlight these facts.Remember how A.P High court held media for setting up a 'media trial' even before anything was proved in Sankaracharya case?(nothing was proved till date but since you don't care let's not go there)
So your favorite MMS govt was busy with such things so far.
I know ignorance is bliss but know that bliss will not last long.
I am not saying MMS is the best....but better than others. Do you believe the so called Left the savior of our country. I am not bothering who is ruling or not. My only worry - what is done for our future. I strongly believe Left was the speed bump to the development of the country. Mr.Advani dont have anything but Ram Temple. I hardly see any value in that. He runs his politics based on religon and Ram temple. Let him put the plan and vision for out future, to build stronger India....I will be the first one to vote for him.
more...
eldrick
10-19 03:58 PM
Hello,
I have a problem. My husband's green card has been approved 2.5 months back and mine wasn't approved yet. I was called in for interview. Honestly, we dont know the reason why.
One of the documents that we need to present during the interview, is my husband's EVL. Since he already got his GC, we just learned few days back that his salary should at least match the prevailing wage in his labor certification. Unfortunately, we dont have a copy of his labor, Thus, we dont know his prevailing wage. One thing, we are sure of is his current salary is lower than the offered wage.
Now, during the interview there's a chance that the officer will notice that there is a discrepancy in the numbers.
So concerned about this. Any advice on what to do??? Please please we really need your help.
Thanks a lot!
I have a problem. My husband's green card has been approved 2.5 months back and mine wasn't approved yet. I was called in for interview. Honestly, we dont know the reason why.
One of the documents that we need to present during the interview, is my husband's EVL. Since he already got his GC, we just learned few days back that his salary should at least match the prevailing wage in his labor certification. Unfortunately, we dont have a copy of his labor, Thus, we dont know his prevailing wage. One thing, we are sure of is his current salary is lower than the offered wage.
Now, during the interview there's a chance that the officer will notice that there is a discrepancy in the numbers.
So concerned about this. Any advice on what to do??? Please please we really need your help.
Thanks a lot!
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unitednations
02-13 03:34 PM
I interpreted that as allowing a country to go over the overall 7% limit in the total EB categories.....Which conforms to what USCIS did in 2005....USCIS allowed much larger than 7% from India that year...and they were within law...( Of course that can be litigated against if someone raises an objection ......)
So if my interpretation applies and after reform there are 290K total visas available then there is a decent chance of EB2/EB3 India China to at least come to 2005 PD levels if not current...
If they changed the law to have 300,000 visas but there is 400,000 people going for greencard; then there would still be retrogression. The unused visas from ROW would not get allocated quarterly but in the fourth quarter.
So if my interpretation applies and after reform there are 290K total visas available then there is a decent chance of EB2/EB3 India China to at least come to 2005 PD levels if not current...
If they changed the law to have 300,000 visas but there is 400,000 people going for greencard; then there would still be retrogression. The unused visas from ROW would not get allocated quarterly but in the fourth quarter.
more...
gomirage
06-11 07:24 PM
Congrats, you have arrived. Now, somebody, close the door please !!!
To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.
Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.
In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.
In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.
To be honest, I do agree that the US needs qualified people with skillsets. The real question is "Are the people from the desi consulting companies the real qualified lot ? " Just to get my background details out of the way. I am a new member, from India ofcourse, and I have recently applied for my citizenship. Now with this huge deluge of immigrants, especially from the desi consulting companies, I feel that my quality of life is getting adversely impacted. Do not rush to conclusions that I am anti Indian or anti immigrant. 12 years back when I first got my H1 visa, the requirements to qualify were strict. Staffing companies to a decent extent followed rules and tried to get the best and the brightest. Once the dot com boom started, people from all walks of life entered IT. This was true of not just the Indians but also of people in the US. Soon after the bust, the value proposition from these staffing companies was simply low cost. This is not to blame the staffing companies. They behaved in an economically rational way.
Consider this scenario. If you run a consulting company, wouldn't you try to maximize your profits by staffing people in projects at the least cost ? This is econmically rational. You wouldn't worry much about the quality of the deliverables and all you would care is to dump as many bodies as possible at the client site or offshore and get the maximum bang for the buck.
In this scenario, how is it feasible to expect immigrational justice when the bodies themselves dont provide exceptional talent and skills but simply offer low cost ? Now you would be tempted to bring in the analogous case of illegal low skilled immigrants. Remember they are just that - low skilled workers. They dont "steal" the jobs of high skilled workers. But this dumping of IT workforce has completely brought down the standard of living of the IT workers here. To be honest, those who get green cards today would feel the same way five years from now when the next wave of so called "skilled IT immigrants" offer even lower wages and destroy the quality of life.
In summary, this retrogression is good in a way. The truly best and the brightest would still be employed until their turn for adjournment comes in. Only the weak are currently scared of the delays. I went through the same torrid GC phase after the tech meltdown in 2001. I was not worried of my job then but many people whom I knew got clobbered and were forced to leave. This is the darwinian flush and it will take its toll. Trust me this the bitter truth. If you people still consider that all the people on H1/L1 are part of the best and the brightest, they are WRONG. Only a small % (probably 20%) are the true best and the brightest and a good 50% will be flushed out. Sorry to say this and hey give me the red dots.
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_TrueFacts
09-04 08:08 PM
I spent almost an hr going through these massive 12 pages and concluded to support British's saying "Indians are dogs" and I want to add the following,
Kanaka
We are called dogs, because we discuss things, then what are we called if we don't and accept things in India as they are.
Kanaka
We are called dogs, because we discuss things, then what are we called if we don't and accept things in India as they are.
more...
walking_dude
02-14 02:51 PM
Life's not simple. It's not A or B. It's usually A and B that succeeds. Like I mentioned in an earlier post going ahead with option A (lawsuit) closes option B ( meetings and negotiations).
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
chandu...have u read the lawsuit outcome? do u still think that an administrative fix is easier to achieve than a lawsuit? lets say it comes down to either/or...either a lawsuit or an administrative fix...which one would IV support?
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
chandu...have u read the lawsuit outcome? do u still think that an administrative fix is easier to achieve than a lawsuit? lets say it comes down to either/or...either a lawsuit or an administrative fix...which one would IV support?
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Rb_newsletter
01-21 06:15 PM
I got the below email from multiple friends. I don't know what is the source, who wrote this analysis because there is no links. I did NOT mean to spread the fear. Just sharing the contents unaltered.
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However, this is how many could read RECENT (Jan 8, 2010) actions / announcement by USCIS towards Consulting companies, which engages or merely places their employees at the client sites for various projects.
� No new H1B application will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� No new H1B extension/stamping will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� If an employee has H1B approved or extension approved, and if he/she comes back to US from a vacation or from an emergency, he/she would be deported back to his/her home country from the Port of Entry (PoE) � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
Why?
Because of 2 recent events:
1) USCIS gave new memorandum (which is now guidelines for USCIS professionals working on the H1B petitions/extensions) on Jan 08th, 2010. (Attached the PDF file for the memorandum).
2) Recently (Jan 2010) several H1B Employees were sent back (in some forum, its mentioned � all of them) to their home country from Newark, NJ and JFK, NY Port of Entry � these were the H1B employees, who went to spend Christmas/New Year vacation to their home countries.
What does the memorandum mention, specifically, about 3rd Party Consulting companies?
Link to the memorandum (PDF attached) � http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
Employer-Employee Relationship:
As per the memorandum, some previous H1B Law defines, the definition of an �US Employer�. Somewhere in that definition (Page 2 of memo), it mentions the word �Employer-Employee relationship�. Till now, it seems that there was no clear guidance on what kind of relationship was considered having Employer-Employee relationship. So, it was being, probably, interpreted independently or ambiguously. Now, on Jan 8th, 2010, USCIS has published this memorandum for TRAINING USCIS OFFICIALS about understanding, Employer-Employee relationship. The memorandum seems to have been prepared with a clear understanding about it, along with the specific EXAMPLES.
Memorandum has given few specific examples, which would QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship, on Page 4-5 of the Memo � including the nature of the job/business. On Page 5-6, memorandum gives few specific examples, which would NOT QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship. Third Party Placement / �Job-Shop� (better version of �Body-shop�, probably) is NOT QUALIFIED for meeting Employer-Employee Relationships � meaning, 3rd Party placement (which most of the small consulting companies do) doesn�t meet H1B requirement, as defined by the law � meaning for this job, the new H1B or Extension or Stamping petitions CANNOT be approved!! Period !!
This is how memorandum has identified 3rd Party Placements and in Bold letters, why it disqualifies for the H1B petitions (comments are in Red):
�The petitioner is a computer consulting company (which is what all small consulting do). The petitioner has contract with numerous outside companies in which it supplies these companies with employee to fulfill specific staffing needs. The specific positions are not outlined in the contract between the petitioner and the third-party company but are staffed on an as-needed basis (this is nothing but, Service Agreement between the petitioner and the mid-vendor!). The beneficiary is a computer analyst (which is what many small consulting company�s employee are). The beneficiary has been assigned to work for the third-party company to fill a core position to maintain the third-party company�s payroll (this nothing but, Mid-Vendor�s or so-called Prime-Vendor�s or Consulting Partner�s Revenue). Once placed at the client company, the beneficiary reports to a manager who works for the third-party company (as it happens, when Consulting partner hires employee as a contractor). The beneficiary does not report to the petitioner for work assignments, and all work assignments are determined by the third-party company (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The petitioner does not control how the beneficiary will complete daily tasks, and no propriety information of the petitioner is used by the beneficiary to complete any work assignments (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The beneficiary�s end-product, the payroll (payroll of mid-vendor/prime vendor/consulting partner), is not in any way related to the petitioner�s line of business, which is computer consulting. The beneficiary�s progress reviews are completed by the client company, not the petitioner (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). [Petitioner Has No Right to Control; No Exercise of Control].�
Right to Control:
Supreme Court has stated the definition of Employer-Employee Relationship (Page 3 of Memo), and there it was mentioned to have �Right to Control� over the work of the employee by the employer. From the entire memo, it sounds that Right control is well-established, ONLY WHEN, at least one supervisor from the petitioner�s company works with the beneficiary at the end-client site, and supervises beneficiary�s day-to-day work. So, big Consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Accenture, Deloitte etc. will be good, as they would meet �Right to Control� and that way, they will satisfy H1B requirement by law, and their petitions for similar 3rd party consulting work, will be APPROVED, but not in case of, small consulting companies!! This is because, big consulting companies such as Accenture � have their entire or partial team � along with managers etc. � working at the same client site, where the beneficiary would be working, so they could supervise their work and so exercise control over their work etc., but that cannot be the case with the small consulting � because, their actual business has been, so far, to place employees and run pay-roll � not to get the client projects!
Why one could think that there are slim chances for this memorandum to get reversed in favor of small consulting companies?
This memorandum took care of big consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, Accenture etc. � meaning, these companies and their employees are NOT impacted. They can travel freely to-and-fro their home country etc. Since, big companies are not impacted, there will not be any big lobbying or oppositions to this memorandum, per say!! There don�t seem to be a platform for small consulting companies to gather and lobby, plus most the small consulting may not get involved, with fear of exposing themselves more to other issues!! So, it might be east to assume that this memorandum is permanent and not temporary. The recent deportation also indicates that the changes like this memorandum is for serious, not just the warning!
How this memorandum relates to the recent deportation events from NY and NJ airports?
There seems to be an anticipated link between these 2 events � Memorandum and recent Deportations � kind of an indication about the current level of government scrutiny and seriousness of the H1B program. Hence, there have been advices by others that � each employer and employee should operate by strictly following the H1B program requirements.
Link to Murthy.com front page posting about this � MurthyDotCom : NewsFlash! Note to H1Bs Traveling to U.S., Working for Consulting Companies (http://www.murthy.com/nflash/nf_h1conc.html)
What one could predict as happening sooner (trend)?
� Since, it seems big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects)/full-time end-clients and their beneficiaries are not impacted with these changes � there could be trend � employee moving from small companies to big companies for a better shelter for full-time positions � especially, when small consulting company�s immediate preventions / actions to this memo cannot ensure safety.
� Big consulting companies could buy small consulting companies or small consulting companies could sell their companies to big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects), to save their employee�s future/transition etc.
Good Luck my Friends....!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, this is how many could read RECENT (Jan 8, 2010) actions / announcement by USCIS towards Consulting companies, which engages or merely places their employees at the client sites for various projects.
� No new H1B application will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� No new H1B extension/stamping will be approved, as per the new guidelines provided USCIS on Jan 08, 2010 memorandum � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
� If an employee has H1B approved or extension approved, and if he/she comes back to US from a vacation or from an emergency, he/she would be deported back to his/her home country from the Port of Entry (PoE) � for 3rd Party Consulting company.
Why?
Because of 2 recent events:
1) USCIS gave new memorandum (which is now guidelines for USCIS professionals working on the H1B petitions/extensions) on Jan 08th, 2010. (Attached the PDF file for the memorandum).
2) Recently (Jan 2010) several H1B Employees were sent back (in some forum, its mentioned � all of them) to their home country from Newark, NJ and JFK, NY Port of Entry � these were the H1B employees, who went to spend Christmas/New Year vacation to their home countries.
What does the memorandum mention, specifically, about 3rd Party Consulting companies?
Link to the memorandum (PDF attached) � http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
Employer-Employee Relationship:
As per the memorandum, some previous H1B Law defines, the definition of an �US Employer�. Somewhere in that definition (Page 2 of memo), it mentions the word �Employer-Employee relationship�. Till now, it seems that there was no clear guidance on what kind of relationship was considered having Employer-Employee relationship. So, it was being, probably, interpreted independently or ambiguously. Now, on Jan 8th, 2010, USCIS has published this memorandum for TRAINING USCIS OFFICIALS about understanding, Employer-Employee relationship. The memorandum seems to have been prepared with a clear understanding about it, along with the specific EXAMPLES.
Memorandum has given few specific examples, which would QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship, on Page 4-5 of the Memo � including the nature of the job/business. On Page 5-6, memorandum gives few specific examples, which would NOT QUALIFY for having Employer-Employee relationship. Third Party Placement / �Job-Shop� (better version of �Body-shop�, probably) is NOT QUALIFIED for meeting Employer-Employee Relationships � meaning, 3rd Party placement (which most of the small consulting companies do) doesn�t meet H1B requirement, as defined by the law � meaning for this job, the new H1B or Extension or Stamping petitions CANNOT be approved!! Period !!
This is how memorandum has identified 3rd Party Placements and in Bold letters, why it disqualifies for the H1B petitions (comments are in Red):
�The petitioner is a computer consulting company (which is what all small consulting do). The petitioner has contract with numerous outside companies in which it supplies these companies with employee to fulfill specific staffing needs. The specific positions are not outlined in the contract between the petitioner and the third-party company but are staffed on an as-needed basis (this is nothing but, Service Agreement between the petitioner and the mid-vendor!). The beneficiary is a computer analyst (which is what many small consulting company�s employee are). The beneficiary has been assigned to work for the third-party company to fill a core position to maintain the third-party company�s payroll (this nothing but, Mid-Vendor�s or so-called Prime-Vendor�s or Consulting Partner�s Revenue). Once placed at the client company, the beneficiary reports to a manager who works for the third-party company (as it happens, when Consulting partner hires employee as a contractor). The beneficiary does not report to the petitioner for work assignments, and all work assignments are determined by the third-party company (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The petitioner does not control how the beneficiary will complete daily tasks, and no propriety information of the petitioner is used by the beneficiary to complete any work assignments (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). The beneficiary�s end-product, the payroll (payroll of mid-vendor/prime vendor/consulting partner), is not in any way related to the petitioner�s line of business, which is computer consulting. The beneficiary�s progress reviews are completed by the client company, not the petitioner (petitioner just runs pay-rolls!). [Petitioner Has No Right to Control; No Exercise of Control].�
Right to Control:
Supreme Court has stated the definition of Employer-Employee Relationship (Page 3 of Memo), and there it was mentioned to have �Right to Control� over the work of the employee by the employer. From the entire memo, it sounds that Right control is well-established, ONLY WHEN, at least one supervisor from the petitioner�s company works with the beneficiary at the end-client site, and supervises beneficiary�s day-to-day work. So, big Consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Accenture, Deloitte etc. will be good, as they would meet �Right to Control� and that way, they will satisfy H1B requirement by law, and their petitions for similar 3rd party consulting work, will be APPROVED, but not in case of, small consulting companies!! This is because, big consulting companies such as Accenture � have their entire or partial team � along with managers etc. � working at the same client site, where the beneficiary would be working, so they could supervise their work and so exercise control over their work etc., but that cannot be the case with the small consulting � because, their actual business has been, so far, to place employees and run pay-roll � not to get the client projects!
Why one could think that there are slim chances for this memorandum to get reversed in favor of small consulting companies?
This memorandum took care of big consulting companies such as Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, Accenture etc. � meaning, these companies and their employees are NOT impacted. They can travel freely to-and-fro their home country etc. Since, big companies are not impacted, there will not be any big lobbying or oppositions to this memorandum, per say!! There don�t seem to be a platform for small consulting companies to gather and lobby, plus most the small consulting may not get involved, with fear of exposing themselves more to other issues!! So, it might be east to assume that this memorandum is permanent and not temporary. The recent deportation also indicates that the changes like this memorandum is for serious, not just the warning!
How this memorandum relates to the recent deportation events from NY and NJ airports?
There seems to be an anticipated link between these 2 events � Memorandum and recent Deportations � kind of an indication about the current level of government scrutiny and seriousness of the H1B program. Hence, there have been advices by others that � each employer and employee should operate by strictly following the H1B program requirements.
Link to Murthy.com front page posting about this � MurthyDotCom : NewsFlash! Note to H1Bs Traveling to U.S., Working for Consulting Companies (http://www.murthy.com/nflash/nf_h1conc.html)
What one could predict as happening sooner (trend)?
� Since, it seems big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects)/full-time end-clients and their beneficiaries are not impacted with these changes � there could be trend � employee moving from small companies to big companies for a better shelter for full-time positions � especially, when small consulting company�s immediate preventions / actions to this memo cannot ensure safety.
� Big consulting companies could buy small consulting companies or small consulting companies could sell their companies to big consulting companies (having their own consulting projects), to save their employee�s future/transition etc.
Good Luck my Friends....!!
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lazycis
02-14 02:59 PM
Life's not simple. It's not A or B. It's usually A and B that succeeds. Like I mentioned in an earlier post going ahead with option A (lawsuit) closes option B ( meetings and negotiations).
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
Totally agree. A and B are not mutually exclusive. We need to push for admin fix and in the meantime explore lawsuit possibility WITHOUT using IV name (does not mean IV members cannot participate as individuals in the lawsuit).
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
Totally agree. A and B are not mutually exclusive. We need to push for admin fix and in the meantime explore lawsuit possibility WITHOUT using IV name (does not mean IV members cannot participate as individuals in the lawsuit).
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thepaew
05-29 10:03 AM
I guess people who work in IT have a very IT-centric world view. I don't and I know several EB1 candidates. They are extremely qualified and have extraordinary ability that can be documented with PhD, papers, patents and awards.
Even if we prevent possible abuse of this category, it will not help retrogression for EB2/3-I. The only fix is going to be legislative and we should focus our energies on that.
I am not sure if EB1 India cap of 3000 visas has been met already. If it was met, then they would have set a priority date for EB1 India too. Assuming that it is not being met, these project managers along with their spouses should be taking only a very small number and that shouldn't contribute much to EB2-3 retrogression numbers. So our real problem is lack of numbers for EB2 and EB3.
Even if we prevent possible abuse of this category, it will not help retrogression for EB2/3-I. The only fix is going to be legislative and we should focus our energies on that.
I am not sure if EB1 India cap of 3000 visas has been met already. If it was met, then they would have set a priority date for EB1 India too. Assuming that it is not being met, these project managers along with their spouses should be taking only a very small number and that shouldn't contribute much to EB2-3 retrogression numbers. So our real problem is lack of numbers for EB2 and EB3.
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a_yaja
07-21 02:58 PM
I have come across quite a few of the Amway/ Quickstart folks. Like most of the people have described here, they usually approach me in Walmart, Meijer, etc. My first experience was in the temple. This dude and his wife went "oh wow! you know so many languages." After talking to the dude, he said that he knew some of my childhood friends and he remembered my face and that we could have possibly played cricket together in our childhood days (this itself should have raised red flags - but I was naive then and didn't think twice). Long story short, we exchanged phone #s and next day he called me and asked me to meet him at his home. He was running an "ecomm business" and was looking for partners. I asked him if he was talking about Amway and he innocently asked me "What is Amway?" I agreed to meet him but something bothered me. I called up another childhood friend who was in Amway and asked him about this dude. Sure enough he was an Amway-ite and already a "Diamond". I was mad and did not go to his house. He called me a couple of times but I never picked up the phone.
That encounter was a bitter experience for me and I decided that I will not entertain any more desis who do cold contacts. However, soon I forgot all about him and I had 2 or 3 more such "cold" contacts (it took me about 3 more experiences to realize the Amyay "cold" contact pattern). I decided that enough was enough. From then on if a desi approached me in any of the stores and decided to do a "cold" contact, I would be on my guard. I would not become angry or irritated (after all they are humans too and they are just doing what they believe will give them a better life) - I would just steer the conversation to what I would like to do in my life. I would spin some yarn about how I am really happy volunteering to help kids in 1st and 2nd grade improve their English reading skills (which I really did) or how I liked taking part in the local community college's adult literacy program (helping adults prepare for GEDs, etc - again which is something I do). I would then go on and become philosophical about how these days everyone is after money and think about money all the time and how this is creating a very unhealthy state of mind, especially among Indians. I would make sure to tell the person that I would not like to go down that path and being a pious Hindu, my goal is to attain Moksha by leading a simple life.
By this time if the dude has not run away from me, I will ask him what his objectives are. Usually they say that they can understand where I am coming from and congratulate me for all my community service (I am rolling all over the place in my head - but somehow keep a straight face). One guy even went so far as to tell me that he is on the other end of the spectrum and he gives away a lot of money in charity. He even told me that I should consider going that route as well. After the meeting, I call up my Amway friend and ask him if XYZ is in Amway and the answer has always been yes.
Inspite of all this if the dude asks for my phone number (and this has happened once), I come up with the story that I forgot to bring my cell phone and proceed to give the person the phone # of the local pharmacy. I also suggest that he give a "missed call" (again rolled all over the place in my head when he gave a missed call) so that I can note down his # when I go home.
I just had to get this off my chest when I saw the Amway thread. Hopefully others can also turn a potentially unpleasant situation into a pleasant situation and have fun at some other person's expense.
That encounter was a bitter experience for me and I decided that I will not entertain any more desis who do cold contacts. However, soon I forgot all about him and I had 2 or 3 more such "cold" contacts (it took me about 3 more experiences to realize the Amyay "cold" contact pattern). I decided that enough was enough. From then on if a desi approached me in any of the stores and decided to do a "cold" contact, I would be on my guard. I would not become angry or irritated (after all they are humans too and they are just doing what they believe will give them a better life) - I would just steer the conversation to what I would like to do in my life. I would spin some yarn about how I am really happy volunteering to help kids in 1st and 2nd grade improve their English reading skills (which I really did) or how I liked taking part in the local community college's adult literacy program (helping adults prepare for GEDs, etc - again which is something I do). I would then go on and become philosophical about how these days everyone is after money and think about money all the time and how this is creating a very unhealthy state of mind, especially among Indians. I would make sure to tell the person that I would not like to go down that path and being a pious Hindu, my goal is to attain Moksha by leading a simple life.
By this time if the dude has not run away from me, I will ask him what his objectives are. Usually they say that they can understand where I am coming from and congratulate me for all my community service (I am rolling all over the place in my head - but somehow keep a straight face). One guy even went so far as to tell me that he is on the other end of the spectrum and he gives away a lot of money in charity. He even told me that I should consider going that route as well. After the meeting, I call up my Amway friend and ask him if XYZ is in Amway and the answer has always been yes.
Inspite of all this if the dude asks for my phone number (and this has happened once), I come up with the story that I forgot to bring my cell phone and proceed to give the person the phone # of the local pharmacy. I also suggest that he give a "missed call" (again rolled all over the place in my head when he gave a missed call) so that I can note down his # when I go home.
I just had to get this off my chest when I saw the Amway thread. Hopefully others can also turn a potentially unpleasant situation into a pleasant situation and have fun at some other person's expense.
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vamsi_poondla
02-14 12:56 PM
Let us get started with legal opinion of Rajiv Khanna. I believe we have strong grounds for the class action law suit for past sins of USCIS - not utilizing full capacity of VISAs for GC processing. That is defintely operational inefficiency. But USCIS might claim that this may never happen again now that the name check requirement is waived off after 180 days.
Around 80 people voted for the law suit. I am willing to contribute $10 thru Paypal on my part. Please pitch in to make it $600 for the consultation. Then one of the folks in DC can get in touch with Rajiv.
lazycis/hopefulgc I am willing to send $10 as a token of support for your initiative. I am impressed by your confidence and conviction. Let us form a new group and we will definitely get moral support from all good IV members. Personally I dont want to be plaintiff as I have too much to loose. But I support your group. Waiting for your direction.
Around 80 people voted for the law suit. I am willing to contribute $10 thru Paypal on my part. Please pitch in to make it $600 for the consultation. Then one of the folks in DC can get in touch with Rajiv.
lazycis/hopefulgc I am willing to send $10 as a token of support for your initiative. I am impressed by your confidence and conviction. Let us form a new group and we will definitely get moral support from all good IV members. Personally I dont want to be plaintiff as I have too much to loose. But I support your group. Waiting for your direction.
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BharatPremi
05-19 09:33 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=i4b6xmZI_XoC&dq=would+India+help+Sri+lanka+tamils&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=plUTSsCPFoS08ASj_LCIBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=13#PPA34,M1
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hatighora
01-05 05:00 PM
Why amway cannot sell brand products that you get at walmart and other stores. What is stopping amway from having a partnership with these companies and sell quality products?
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gbof
09-15 11:06 AM
month priority date No of appr 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
June-08 4/1/2004 122 2 9 18 61 30
July-08 4/1/2004 88 1 7 14 29 36
August-08 6/1/2006 261 0 3 5 19 63 103 67
Sept-08 8/1/2006 3 0 1 0 0 2
Thanks for this useful info. 05 & 06 approved #s in Q-4 of 08 looks very significant - these alongwith approval of 'multiple filed AOS' will surely reduce wait time for 05-EB2i. Hop[efully before june 05 cases will be done.
June-08 4/1/2004 122 2 9 18 61 30
July-08 4/1/2004 88 1 7 14 29 36
August-08 6/1/2006 261 0 3 5 19 63 103 67
Sept-08 8/1/2006 3 0 1 0 0 2
Thanks for this useful info. 05 & 06 approved #s in Q-4 of 08 looks very significant - these alongwith approval of 'multiple filed AOS' will surely reduce wait time for 05-EB2i. Hop[efully before june 05 cases will be done.
Picasa
07-27 03:08 PM
If you are making lot of money "more than $115". Please donate it to IV.
I get good monthly checks every month (more then $115), and they don't seem to bounce either. And good thing it increases. Don't need to google anything while I can get from credible sources.
I get good monthly checks every month (more then $115), and they don't seem to bounce either. And good thing it increases. Don't need to google anything while I can get from credible sources.
newuser
09-23 09:15 PM
E-mailed everyone on the list. Only one bounced ID.
